forums.ps2dev.org

*** Topic for #ps2dev: Welcome to #ps2dev | We are moving to Freenode! (freenode.net/irc_servers.shtml) | WE HAVE MOVED TO FREENODE. GO THERE.

Since the people who decided we should move didn't think to actually discuss it except with those who happened to be on at the time, I'm doing it now.

Should we move? Are we stupid not to?

Moved to somewhere people can actually respond.

If the value of the channel is in the ability of people to get quick responses, keeping the channel somewhere with frequent splits is a bad idea.

Getting away from all the 'backup'-oriented channels can only help, too.

EFnet sucks, and I really wish the channel was somewhere else.

That being said, I don't think this attempt at a move is going to work, and it's likely to cause as many problems as it will solve. We are too big and have been in the same place too long.

I'm all for the move. It moves us to an IRC network which was originally created to support open source software. It also brings us to the same network as the ps2linux IRC channel. I for one will be more likely to keep a window open for #ps2linux and #sps2 while on the network.

Oobles.

I vote for efnet. Speak up if you agree.

ooPo wrote:I vote for efnet. Speak up if you agree.

I am one who didn't care either way.

However, as the saying goes, "possession is 9/10s of the law". Most people having made the switch over and becoming accustomed to the new network, I wonder if people would be willing to switch back without some compelling reason.

One issue I can see is if there presently is or becomes a schism in the ps2dev IRC community, which is something hopefully we can avoid.

Avoiding a schism should have been a thought before the move.

There's a lot of joins and parts in the efnet channel, but new traffic to the freenode channel is far less.

I still say it is an extreme solution to efnet's habit of going wonky once in a while.

ooPo wrote:Avoiding a schism should have been a thought before the move.

There's a lot of joins and parts in the efnet channel, but new traffic to the freenode channel is far less.

I still say it is an extreme solution to efnet's habit of going wonky once in a while.

1. Thinking before the move.
Agreed. I wasn't there, but I think the way it went was, some people in the channel said "This sucks! Lets change!" And convinced a large number of people who probably didn't care one way or the other to move.

Ideally, a forum post would have been made first. Decisions affecting the whole community should be discussed first, rather than after.

2. Existing channel in EFNET
This is a problem, or not, depending on how different people look at it.
If we don't go back, we need to know how/whether to maintain the channel.

Personally, letting lamers take over the channel and its name isn't appealing.

There are loose ends created as a result of this move. I propose we list out the loose ends (remaining channel, ppl joining, pros/cons yada) and make a final vote and ask people to live with it: homeland or new colony.

However, I suspect there isn't alot of people who feel strongly one way or the other. Is that good or bad ? If the group does things like this on sudden urgings, it might not be good.

1) That was the main problem: they didn't want to wait for people to discuss it. It wasn't a large group, maybe 4 or 5 people. The plan was to lock up the channel, set the topic, get a spam bot announcing the move and just tell everyone to suck it. Myself included.

2) Problems with efnet? Splits happen, sure... but it has an established population and a great amount of turnaround. Plus, we've been there for a while... people drop by expecting us to be there. Now we're missing out on potential new members which is especially annoying given the efforts people have been doing lately to make ps2dev more accessable.

Regardless, it would be nice to actually hear a proper sampling of the opinion of people. All we have right now is a very vocal minority and a surprisingly large number of people who make off-hand comments on one side or the other but don't seem to be interested in actually commenting where it counts.

Until they do, the issue remains unsettled in my opinion.

I believe this "so-called" vocal minority had only good intentions, however one might find some fault with their methods. Whats done is done. Lets turn this into a learning experience instead.

Lets just open up a poll and vote + discussion-thread ? And then move on with the decision ?

Why the formality? Why not just let both channels stand, then let people vote with their virtual feet?

As long as people can contact who they need, when they need it, what's the big deal?

Neil,

Its a big deal because (from what I am understanding thus far as a relatively new person around here) for a long time PS2DEV has consisted of a strong core of DEVs who are both highly technical and have strong beliefs on proper ways deving (ethical hacking). This core group also generally goes by consensus.

I would say the presence of this core is what makes PS2DEV what it is. Not having this core in both places can be detrimental, I think. It is what makes the difference between PS2DEV and ... unnamed.

Name the unnamed and you get to own it!